SCOTT DETROW, HOST:
The second night of retaliatory missile strikes from Iran against Israel is now underway. Last night, three people within Israel were killed and dozens wounded. Over the last few days, Israel has launched a wave of airstrikes inside Iran, airstrikes targeting the country's top military commanders as well as nuclear sites and scientists. Iran's U.N. ambassador says 78 people had been killed in the Israeli strikes, a death toll which is expected to rise. In Tel Aviv, people took to bomb shelters, and the sound of loud explosions and sirens could be heard throughout the city.
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DETROW: This is the most significant fighting between the two countries in decades. There is no sign of deescalation on either side yet. To understand Israel's goals and why this escalation is happening now, we've called Chuck Freilich. He is the former deputy national security adviser for Israel's National Security Council and joins me now from Tel Aviv. Welcome.
CHUCK FREILICH: Thank you.
DETROW: What is Israel's strategy here? Why launch these initial attacks? What is the goal?
FREILICH: Well, first of all, this is something that's been in the making for pretty much 30 years now. Iran, ever since the Islamic Republic was established in 1979, has called consistently for Israel's destruction and since the early '90s has been pursuing a nuclear program. There have been numerous efforts over the years to get them to stop the program, postpone the program. There have been subversion attacks, sabotage. There's been diplomacy. And here we are 30 years later, and Iran is very, very close to the bomb, and it's considered a threshold state today. And in recent months, there's information that they've moved further towards weaponization.
DETROW: You talked about 30 years in the making. This has always been talked about as a possibility but within the context of there would be incredible risks, whether it was the fact that Israel might not be able to get all of the uranium or whether this would provoke Iran or lead to a full-scale war between the country. Why do you think, this moment, the pros outweigh the cons from Israel's point of view?
FREILICH: Well, at no point in the last 30 years has Iran been this vulnerable. And it took Israel yesterday and maybe part of this morning to essentially complete the process of eliminating any effective Iranian capability to interfere with Israeli aircraft over Iranian space. I believe there's strong support from the Trump administration. There were reports recently about tensions between Israel and the U.S. about this. I think they were overstated. They may even been somewhat intentional. In any event, the president has come out strongly in favor. And I think there's a feeling in Israel that the job has to be done one way or the other because diplomacy doesn't seem to be working.
DETROW: I - you're in Tel Aviv. I imagine you spent some time in a bomb shelter today. Do you think this attack, in the short term, makes Israelis safer?
FREILICH: Well, in the short term, obviously not, but we're not dealing just with the short term. Iran is viewed by Israel - I mean, that's what I was saying before about the calls, the endless calls for Israel's destruction. It's not just rhetoric. It's lots and lots of money that the - billions that the Iranians have put into this - the nuclear program, the ballistic missiles, the support for Hamas, Hezbollah and other proxy organizations. There's a feeling in Israel that Iran simply poses an existential threat, and if you're going to eliminate an existential threat or greatly reduce it, you tend to be willing to pay significant prices to that end.
DETROW: You saw President Trump in recent days since this attack saying maybe this will bring Iran back to the negotiating table. Do you think there's any world where there's any sort of diplomatic agreement about the future of this enrichment program at this point in time?
FREILICH: Well, I think in the end, there has to be some sort of diplomatic resolution to this because a military strike, no matter how perfect, and even if the United States does it - it can only buy time. So if the U.S. does it, it's a little bit more time than Israel, but we're not talking a lot of time. So a diplomatic outcome, of course, is always but certainly remains the preferred option here. I think that there is, since Iran has rebuffed the efforts to reach a diplomatic solution - there is a possibility here that they can be coerced into coming back to the table and making concessions that they wouldn't have made otherwise.
DETROW: Well, that leads to a broader question to end this. I mean, do you think there is the military capacity - and separately, do you think there is the broad political will - within Israel for another war at this point, given the last few years?
FREILICH: First of all, it's not viewed as another war. It's really viewed as a continuation of the existing one. It's an expansion, an escalation, sure, but it's part of it. Remember, Iran is the supporter of Hamas and Hezbollah, and they were part of the prewar planning. We have the documents today showing that the objective wasn't just the massacre of October 7, but it's Israel's destruction, literally. And we know that they've been thinking about it ever since and putting more effort into it. So yes, I mean, can Israel do it? Obviously, there's a price to be paid on a whole variety of levels in terms of Israeli society, in terms of Israel's international standing, all sorts of things. But in the end, the commitment to existence overshadows any other consideration.
DETROW: That is former Israeli Deputy National Security Adviser Chuck Freilich in Tel Aviv. Thank you so much for talking to us.
FREILICH: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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